Thursday, March 27, 2008

The Sound of Music # 2

Well for starters watch the video on Skeptic Saint's post called Popstarts.
I guess this is one of the reasons most people despise pop, but lemme tell you pop is much more.I agree this so called Pop-culture has its faults but the Rock culture is no better' I guess you already know,what I am talking about'.

All I am saying is that, Do we even care about what these Popstars and Rockstars do in their personal lives? Do we care if they crash cars, get drunk and end up in rehad?
Well I don't, all I am concerned is what kinds music they make.

And I like the music they make, even Britney Spears and Michale Jackson have made some really amazing songs. And they have worked really hard to get where they are today, their success wasn't served to them on a silver platter.

I agree pop is 'growing up music' and we get inclined to rock and metal later but criticizing Pop calls for hypocrisy.The songs we cherished when we were kids remain the same, its our preferences which change. We start relating to more and more to the lyrics and the music of metal and rock. 'I know this cauz Iv been through this phase myself '
But this does not give us the right of abusing pop.

Pointers towards Pop's originality were raised, well all I'd like to say is pop is a blend of all types of music be it rock, classical,world music,Jazz,hip-hop, country, fork etc etc and a blend like this is made after extensive experimentation. The best example of this can be seen in the music of Timbaland 'if you haven't heard him already, do so and u'll be surprised by the kinda music he makes'.
Pop reinvents itself with every artist and every song and it has the maximum variety when it comes to sounds and voices.

And when comes to lyrics, pop does not lack any lusture in it. I guess you should listen to the some of the old classic pop songs which will tell you what I am talking about.

If you have any other things too, I'll be more than happy to clarify :)

33 comments:

crasiezt said...

Timbaland is one of my faves! Have you heard "Throw it on me" and "The way I are"? Awesome songs!!

There are some people who've grown up listening to rock, but it's mostly pop that we've listened to as kids. And now, even though I don't like all those boy/girl bands any more, I sometimes get nostalgic when I hear their songs:-)

What these people do in their personal lives makes for good gossip, but if it has no effect on their music, who cares!

DS said...

yeah! your are right that just that to show that they have grown up to be more refined, ppl somtimes abuse pop while this is the music most of us have grown with.
And what happned to celebs like britney is the aftermath of been able to properly handle success at such early age. but this could be anywhere in any glam field.

Friendly nextdoor guy said...

nice jigss

keep on jigging the jigg aditi!!
kudos!

Alok said...

Let me clarify:

I don't want to include any subjective factors into my discussion. I don't want you to stop listening pop because it is "Growing up music" (hahaha! LMAO! who invented that term?). I'm not going to compare, I'm not imposing that rock is better than pop.

What I said in the last post, I stand by it. It is the truth. Let me give you the definition of Pop from Wikipedia:

"Pop music is an ample and imprecise category of modern music not defined by artistic considerations but by its potential audience or prospective market. Pop is music composed with deliberate intent to appeal to the majority of its contemporaries.

Artistic concepts such as musical form and aesthetics are not a concern in the writing of pop songs, the primary objectives being audience enjoyment and commercial success"


In this regard, The Beatles can be (and are) called a pop band. But The Beatles were a great band. So it isn't necessary that pop is bad (I did mention this before).

What I am against is the spirit behind pop: to sell, to be famous, to seek recognition. There is a serious loss to originality when one considers all these factors. And I believe it is Originality that makes us humans special.

What would we have done if Newton hadn't been original?

Where would physics be if Einstein had only thought of making money and used his intellect only to follow others and join a nice college and earn fame and money? He chose to be a post office worker rather and kept working towards physics.

Where would music be if Beethoven or Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath or Charlie Parker or Opeth had thought only about commercial success?

Again, repeating what I said: Pop music may not necessarily be bad. There are good pop artists out there. But definitely, (I speak from loads of experience from my ears, and this is my opinion) pop lacks compositional skills, it lacks uniqueness, it lacks variety. It lacks originality.

Aditi ''Jiggs'' said...

heyaa

@crasiezt

yup ,Timbaland rocks
yaa thayts the point i am makin who cares wt they do in thr personal lives as long as it has no effect on the music.

@ds
Cdnt have agreed with you more:)

@friendly nextdoorguy
lol

@Alok
all ill say to you is
take a chill-pill dude :)
all i am sayin is that dont abuse pop, ur free to listen to wtever u want to.

cheers

Alok said...

Jiggs,

I am chill, in fact I was the calmest when I wrote all these replies.

Music has been my sole sink for a long period. It has helped me discover myself. I love thinking about it, it soothes me. So if my analysis appears aggressive or overly excited, you now know the reason.
:)

Cheers, dude. Your point was taken in the last post itself.

SambY said...

@ alok.. do u only listen to indie bands??? indie rock bands?? causeyou are so much agaisnt commerciality.. if rock is so much against commerciality then tell me why do we have so many rock shows ??? except for the netherlands rocke fest every year . I dnt think there are any other free to attend rock shows.. ?? Dont rock bands sell albums ?? Dnt raock starts have their dolls and merchandise ??


Urself u quoted that.. one of the leading objectives for audience enjoyment .. ur are the audience right?? so stay happy.. they are trying to make u enjoy.. why are u bothering with their objectives n aganedas instead of just sitting back n enoying..???

U say "pop music may not be definitely be bad".. of course..where does the maybe come from...?? is is not bad..noe is raock.. nor is trance.. even rap/hip hop is not bad.. it depends upon the listener... what is ur personality?? what is ur passion..?? and stuff like that...the shit music to u maybe another mans classic dude... tolerance!!!

U quote black sabbath ?? why did ozzy leave the band.. or let say was fired from the band.. ?? u knw the reasons.. does it hamper any of his fan following?? till date??

Take the example of skidrow for instance?? I am sure u must have heard them... the pioneers of hair metal...?? 18 n life?? they disbanded when their band lost commercial steam.. and annd the lead singer worked in a drive by store.. ?? does this tell u ho wimportant comercialism is to some of the bands??
Pop star do earn a lot of money... they put up charity shows too remebr ??

In a way rock to has originated from rock n roll, country. if not soley from the blues..

Rock can be fully commercial n poppy too... take the archies.. the posterboys.. even elton jhon.. n tina turner.. they all come into soft rock category..

Aerosmith.. n AC/DC some their songs are poppy..similarly.. MJ style cannot be caled soley pop.. n yeah he has experimented with metal riffs if u will. so ples dont say that pop does not experiment.. infact its just that the bands..rock or pop are going on making music.. we instead of listening to them are more concerend as to what genre they are.. to keep up the image...soley to present ourselfs are the no nonsense rockers... its almost a sin to listen to pop ...

this is a completely unjust ful to the pop stars.. I dnt listen timbaland.. but my friend has 3 posters n a pc wallpaper... but why do i dnt listen to him??? is he too commetrcial...?? who knws... does he not expreiment.. i dnt knw... All i know is i dnt like the music he makes.. thts it.. thats the only reason i dnt listen to him...

SambY said...

even punk rock my fav genre.. its main roots were during revolutionary times... why do i listent o then?? cause it sounds nice.. as for the stunts the pop celebs make... even rock bands do so.. dissng at the queen.. sex pistols have done it... using a water spraying dildo on stage...the rammstienns have done it.... are there not gimmicks.. n dont tell me these both bands are not original or succesfull... rammstien was the first international band i heard which was determnined to make their own mark n not fioloow the traditional armecan/british metal
scene...

KISS... the band.. u cant call them just a rock band...it was a glamourus rock band right?? using face paint and all...or would u still like to call is "experimentation" and diss at shock awe glam value???

punk was basically a rebel form of music.. times change..instead of the queen they are nw abusing war... than is experimentation.. then what bout men at work who dissed at the war in viietnam decades ago?? was is ecxperimentation..or still a race to use current affairs to earn quick bucks..???

nor are rock bands completely non vcommercial...nor ii spop simply brinless music on for commercialism... look at boyzone. the brit band.. some of their songs are simply classic.. m sure.. I u sing them in front of ur gal friend .. she will go weak in the kness.. no so if u start singingblack sabbath in front of her.. even though she mabye a metal fan dude..

every music has its pros n cons.. u like it u hate it.. but just dnt dont go saying that its not wroth it.. rock may be better than pop .. yes in ur and my opinion it is.. that foes not mean pop is sumthing bad.. we just dnt like it.. fine over... instead of dissing over it.. lets go to any rock music forum and praise our form fav of music to the skies..

No Offence brother..

Express said...

Hey, gr8 1...me really liked it..

Well, the starting of the post made so much sense. And not only popstars or rockstars, that should be the case with all celebs.

Timbaland? never tried...ill hear, n let u knw..

Sure pop reinvents itself with every artist and absolutely maximum variety of sounds and voices. Very well said man. Pop music is called so coz its 'popular', but there are people who don't relate to it, its their personal choice wht they wanna hear, I still stick by what I said, no music is shitty music, no band is gay band, its personal preference and people should be given enough liberty in recreational activities like music...

Your post is in awesome taste.
Cheers!

Aditi ''Jiggs'' said...

heyAA

@alok
yup yup, I got the reason:)
it's the same for me too
all is all music rocks :)

@samby
thanks a ton buddy:)

@express
thanks gal!!
try timbaland he's awsm
will be postin his song soon on my blog :)

cheers

Soham Chakraborty said...

i am fan of arch enemy and a die hard fan of backstreet boys at the same time .. i am a fan of call ( pak rock band ) and sonu nigam at the same time ... i am fan of iron maiden and also a fan of akon ....

does that makes things clearer !!??

Alok said...

Samby,

No offense taken man, in fact your reply was a great one, it told me that you had the patience to read what I said. It also told me that you have listened to a lot and that you have thought about it. I appreciate it. Also, I’d like to mention that the point you and Aditi are trying to make, I’m not speaking against that. I agree with it.

All I’m gonna say to you is that you interpreted me wrongly. Did I say Pop is bad music? Did I say rock is the best form of music around? I mentioned a lot of genres: Jazz, Metal, and Indian Classical. If you think I glorified Rock or Metal somewhere, please tell me. I’m not praising my own likings; I’m not saying that liking pop is bad. I’m just saying that the spirit behind pop is what is wrong. That that is aimed at popularity progresses to bad. It loses originality. Pop music is so full of this. I have loads of examples; the hair metal scene you mentioned is just another one. Skid Row lost popularity and Led Zeppelin remains popular today because Skid Row had little originality, whereas Led Zeppelin is full of it.
I’m not against "commerciality". In fact, it plays a very important role. How do you suppose one is supposed to survive? And survival is The Law. All I said is, don't let the "commerciality" rule the music. Don't make music because people like it, make music that is true to itself. Don't shy from making music that isn't popular currently. It might become the next popular thing

You don’t understand what I meant by experimentation. Listen to “Indian Ocean” ( they made the music for the movie Black Friday), the underground Bengali band scene ,A.R. Rehman , that is experimentation. He is popular, and I’m not against him because he doesn’t work for popularity, he works for music. That is essentially my point.

The factors that I listed are a non personal, scientific analysis. Apply them to any genre you want, you will find its faults, you will find its plus points. I bother with them because I can, and I’ve risen above the “accha lagta hai isliye accha hai” mindset. You cannot say Indian Classical Music is bad because it didn’t sound good to you. There are many musical pieces I didn’t like at the first glance; but when I heard them properly, became my most favourite ones. Do you ever get the chills when listening to some piece of music? Have you wondered why you reached that (almost orgasmic) state? I did, and I get more orgasms now.

Yes, What I may enjoy might be shit to the other and what they enjoy might be shit to me. But I don’t care. All I care about is the art form, not the people. And here I am presenting my analysis of music as an art form. Tolerance? I’m not imposing, am I? I’m just presenting facts, analysis. I’m not telling you to stop listening to pop or trance etc.

Alok said...

Samby,

I am terribly tempted to answer all those questions that you have hurled.

However, after reading what you wrote, I have come to the conclusion that it will be fruitless. Tou haven't looked at music the way I do. Those who have, will have known what I'm talking about.

But I will just reply to one question:

Black Sabbath is what it is, not because of Ozzy Osbourne. It was the other three who knew about what they were doing, and are pioneers in their respective fields. Did they stop doing it? Nope. They remained true, even if no one heard them. Today, they’re considered true innovators.

Nilesh Sawant said...

well...you cant actually compare good music...be it any genre..
but then again....there are people i know ...who ve heard a single judas priest song...for more than 20 times a day...for a week or two...
i hvnt yet come across a britney spears' fan as such though...
and its not like rock bands are worshiped blindly....well sometimes they are...but still....even metallica was criticized for being commercial....
u see...there is something called as ' really bad metal-commercial music '....but if you look at the pop-culture scenario..the percentage of commercial music being crap...will be way more...

and just for the record....if i am ever forced to sing a backstreet boy song ...for the girl i like...
there ll be some heavy distortion in it...

SambY said...

@ alok....

I get your point...ur not agaist the music but are against the commercial aspect of pop..thts it right....

While i still fail to understand why u would bother bout this rather than listen to the music..but yes.. u rghlty said maybe i have not gone beyond the satge to "accha laga to sun liya"....

Cheerz

Express said...

ohk, usually I refrain from commenting on others on others blogs, but I HAVE 2 say this...

First time I heard everytime i die 21 times and toxic 17 times!!!! At different situations, different frames of mind and different ages though.

thr u go..COB and Britney....

Its just passion for the music man, depends on mood n company for me...but if i like something, I keep lissening over n over n over again till i am satisfied!

d SINNER!!! said...

beautifully written...

to me the sound, the music is imp...neither the artist nor his/her life or genre

Aditi ''Jiggs'' said...

heyaaa

@soham
yup is it,
thats my whole pt. music is universal n everybody has thr own choices.
keep visiting :)

@alok
no offense take really :)
all this discussion is in good taste and i guess v r learning from what each of us r tryin to say.

@nilesh
you u said u cant compare music !!!
:)
keep visiting

@samby
ab kya bolu tujhe, uv already said it all :)
thankzz for the support !!!

@express
yup thats called the passion for music!!!
:)

@sinner
thanks
that means a lot!!!

cheers

maverick said...

hmm..nice...
its been ages since i listened to pop...its only rock for me now..n that to mostly linkin park n al :D

Nilesh Sawant said...

i said ...
' you cant compare good music '...

and i kinda didnt get your reply....

Aditi ''Jiggs'' said...

@nilesh

sorii sorii
typo
i make them a lot
that i mean to say it
as u said u cant compare music !!!
thats wt i saw tryin to say all along my my post
:)
keep visiting

Aditi ''Jiggs'' said...

opps
again a typo
i guess ill never learn


What i mean to say is
as u said u cant compare music !!!
thats wt i saw tryin to say all along my my post
:)
keep visiting!!!

Aditi ''Jiggs'' said...

heyaa

@maverick

u sd sometimes for old time sake :)

cheers

skeptic saint said...

whoa! nice debate going on...

well alok i would disagree with some of your points...you see pop is not all about *selling* music...yeah its true that artists like britney and shakira relied heavily on their videos and gimmicks...and it was the reason why actresses like lindsay lohan and paris hilton came up with their own songs which actually did sell despite the fact that they couldnt sing for a penny's worth...but that does not mean pop is all shit...i mean havent you heard ronan keating or robbie williams or coldplay or even enrique...and as you said, even beatles is a pop band...

and who said pop doesnt experiment...everyday, you see a new genre of pop coming...consider michelle branch or avril lavigne...i wld say they sing rock pop or punk pop or something like that...

and if pop is all abt glam, then rock is all abt sex and drugs...people wanted to get into rock for that sole reason...remember kurt cobain died of drug overdose...

and i wld say that pop sells more because it has got a wider fan base than like say metal...so theres no comapring here...

and man, remember the time you heard "when you say nothing at all" or "words" or "feel", didnt you want to hear it again and again...and man if thats not classic good music, i m gonna cut my ears off...hehe...

i m so glad that such a nice discussion is going on abt music here and sure am learning from all the comments...so do keep comenting...and yeah thnx jiggy for bringing this up...

Alok said...

Samby,

Thankyou for getting my point. I appreciate it, seriously. No one else seems to be even close to getting it here.

"Accha lagta hai isliye accha hai" is of course the primary attitude towards art of any kind. But let us be a bit deeper and see the art form, not our pleasure. Why "Black" was a better movie than "Golmaal", why "The Satanic Verses" is better than "Five Point Someone", is what I'm talking about here.

Have fun!

Skeptic Saint,

Ooof! I guess, I'll have to refer you to my reply to Samby. If you still don't get it, I dunno how to explain it to you: I'm not against pop, I'm not pro-Metal, I'm not against "commerciality".

If there is any aspect of Metal that gets poppy (by that I mean Wikipedia's definition, see above), I will hate it (as I said , I hate Hair Metal). However, Metal is such a dynamic genre, there is always something new, something with uniqueness.

If you consider Avril Lavigne to be experimental music, I guess you have little idea about experimentation. A.R. Rehman is experimental, Shankar Ehsaan Loy are experimental, Metallica was experimental, Opeth and Dream Theatre are extremely experimental.

I love Coldplay. Why, becuase their sound is unique. They aren't Pop, they are Rock to the core. And even if you would like to call them pop, go ahead, no problems, their songs have originality(that's all that matters), and hence the spirit behind pop is absent.

The songs you mention: yes, I wanted to hear them again and again, because they were good compositions. I said, I'm not against Pop. I'm against the spirit behind it. The songs you mention have such effort behind them, you can absolutely feel it. They were made not just to sell but as a form of honest expression.

I hope you get my point.

Soham Chakraborty said...

@aditi

ya I got the point at the first place itself because I have also experienced it myself , its not about genre , not about artist , not about commerciality , it is just MUSIC which comes to us in various forms . Someone likes it someone doesn't .

Aditi ''Jiggs'' said...

@ skeptic saint,alok
the floor is open for discussions :)

@soham
yup true:)

cheers

Friendly nextdoor guy said...

Popstrats was good!!
thanks

Alisha said...

way to go fundo!!
cheers!

skeptic saint said...

hey alok,

you just seem to be picking peanuts outta all my shit and analyzing them man!... ;)

i never said avril made experimental music...what i said was that pop is changing nowadays...pop now comes in fusion with everything...like pop rock which i think is the music of coldplay( i dnt think it can be called pure rock) and techno pop,metal pop and all that...

and experimentation huh?, well nickelback, one of the most popular rock bands has been accused of repeating its most popular singles...

you say that you love pop compositions which are made with "honest expression" how do you recognise which are written with that? are they the songs you like?...lol! every genre makes good music man, and every genre experiments and every genre is made to sell... if it had not been that, that genre would have died long back... its just that you so much love metal that you think pop doesnt experiment or you think pop stinks... looking from someone else's pov, metal might suck becoz he finds it too loud or whatever...its just abt preferences...

as aditi has said, it is good music that we want to listen to and not worry abt the genre... when i hear "feel", i dnt worry if its metal or not...similarly, when i hear "smells like teen spirit", i dnt care if it was experimental or it was made from some previous shit...

music is what counts...try to get out of your metal shoes and you ll realise that...

hope i m clear enough... :)

Aditi ''Jiggs'' said...

@ friendly next door guy
ur welcome

@alisha
thankss :)

@skeptic saint
u said it all :)

cheers

Alok said...

Skeptic Saint,

"picking peanuts outta shit and analyzing them"

Well, as an Engineer, that's my Job.

*sigh*

Seems like it is moot to present my point here.

If you'll hear music the way I hear it, you'll understand what I'm saying here. When I hear music, I'm "picking peanuts" too. You still haven't got what I mean by experimentation.

I believe that the human system is built in such a way that it can automatically recognise and appreciate effort.

Alok said...

I'd just like to add:

"every genre is made to sell... if it had not been that, that genre would have died long back"

False. That is not the primary motive. And the conclusion you derive , I have loads of examples to prove that wrong. I already have, in fact.